Submission

One thing's been concerning me lately (and it's also one of the reasons why I hardly ever post my work on the web) is the issue with copyright when you publish stories online.

I read somewhere that if you post your stories online, i.e. to fictionpress, it still counts as being published, so you can't sell off that same story to a publisher as First-Rights. I think password-protected critique sites are an exception, or something. Can anyone explain this to me a bit more clearly?

Anyway, the other day I was logged out and I clicked onto the forums and realized you could still view all the stories posted at the critique section without being logged on, and the thought just occurred to me that we might want to check whether posting would be okay.

Any lawyers out there? ^^;;

If I were you, I'd read a bit about writing first. Check the resources section, and listen to Holly Lisle's podcast and see what she has to say. I have read it before, but I can't quite remember where - if you are serious about writing fiction, don't bother "publishing" on line. It's ok to do snippets and get opinions etc... but not whole works.

I think the reason is that the quality is so awful on line that you might have difficulty being taken seriously when you try and go to a real publisher.

So - everyone might see it differently, but I see myself as at least holding onto the dream that I might one day be a rich and famous author - so I don't publish on line. I don't consider the "comedy in a day" to be the same as publishing either, since it was more of a quick challenge to get the juices flowing.

If you're interested, I'll see if I can dig up some references for you. Let me know.

Travis.
--
http://cottreau.blogspot.com
http://cottreaureviews.blogspot.com/

This is my understanding, sorry, can't quote any references at this stage. I'll try put something together for the site because this is an important matter.

FictionPress and other eBook publishers is legitimate publishing. And would count as first print. If you do print something in full on the internet then it is considered published. Mur Lafferty has some interesting things to say on podiobooks and print books and interviews a lot of podiobook (audio book over the web) authors.

Sites like Forward Motion don't have public forums to allow their members to share their work. This then preserves print rights as people are belonging to a group.

We can consider making the critique forum private so that work posted here would likely be protected.

No Excuses. Just Write.

There are a couple of issues getting confused here:

1. There is legitimate publishing on-line in an electronic format. Its no different from publishing in print. If you publish on-line that's your First-rights gone (hopefully sold) and you can't sell them again. Many print publishers will not accept your work unless you can give them First-rights.

2. Then there is 'accidental' publication on line. There are no rules here but there are guidelines. It's generally accepted that if you post less than 10% of a work on a public forum (for review) then you have NOT published. If you post the whole work to a closed forum (accessible only by using a private password) for review you also have NOT published. Step outside of those guidelines and you have probably published (even if you didn't think you were).

Nice summary fordy.

No Excuses. Just Write.

Wow, thanks for all the responses, guys. ^_^ It DOES clear up a lot, particularly the 10% thing and closed forum thing fordy wrote.

I have hardly done enough writing to worry about this kind of thing, to be totally, utterly honest *guiltylook*-- but I thought this would be worth bring up, especially as people posting in the critique problems should be aware of this type of thing. So yes, Kerryn, I think a little section about it is a good idea. :)

It's a hairy question...

Originally, anything put on the Web was considered published - using your first serial rights. However, EditRed (a site I'd recommend) has three ways of putting stuff up on the Web: Public, Reader and Private. Private and Reader uploads are considered (by most publishers) as unpublished - only a very limited number of people see them (YOU for private) and your reader list for Reader. Readers are essentially seeing the work for critiquing purposes, not as subscribers to your webpage.

As for public...

Well, there's a number of publishers who are now beginning to recognise that putting stuff up on the Web does not influence their subscribers - they're suggesting that a site with less than a few thousand members is not really true publishing - it has no effect on people buying their magazines or books.

So, maybe a similar approach might be fitting here - critique only (open to invited readers only) vs for all and sundry.

Find more about me here!

Hey penguin- you found your way over here then, I'm so pleased!

All hail The Great Penguin- fount of knowledge and wisdom :)

And from now on anything I'm working on that I'm planning on submitting won't be appearing online in any substantial amount. Great advice there...

The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug.
Mark Twain

Wow, the editred site looks awesome!! *has instantly signed up :P* Thanks for sharing that, penguin! :) :) :)

NaNoers might recognise me as Peter B Budvietas, the one who tried to be an ML for Auckland and then got waylaid by outside circumstances, and almost didn't get into doing the weriting to finish.

And Maya - thank you for your description (and telling me about the site). But... fount of knowledge and wisdom? I just have a little information that I'm quite willing to share!

Find more about me here!

Information about inadvertantly publishing work online is now in the critique forum. I've also linked back to this discussion.

No Excuses. Just Write.